Welsummer Club of North America


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Show Results 2011 YOUTH

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on July 26, 2011 at 9:58 PM Comments comments (1)

One of our WCNA member's (Hens And Roos of BYC) daughter, Erin, aged 11 won numberous placings with her Welsummer pullet, Sally. The pullet is six months old. Located at the Dane County Fair, Madison, WI . Erin also won numberous placings as listed:

Welsummer cockeral-4th place=pink ribbon in Continental class- due to a few small feather stubs on legs

Welsummer pullet- 1st place=top blue in Continental class, received Champion ribbon in Continental class, received 2011 Standard Champion ribbon and received Reserve Champion Best of Show ribbon

Welsummer Cock-1st place= top blue in Continental class

Welsummer Hen-1st place= top blue in Continental class, received Reserve Champion ribbon in Continental class

CONGRATULATIONS TO ERIN for a GREAT job showing her Welsummers!

 :) (clap! clap!)

Winter/Spring 2011 WCNA E-Newsletter‏

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on March 21, 2011 at 10:00 AM Comments comments (0)

Hello Members!


Many of us have already gotten chicks or hatching eggs this year and we are all rallying for Spring to get here! Believe it or not, I've been hearing from our members that there is an increased demand for Welsummers and many of you are already sold out for the year or booked up. For those who are wanting eggs and chicks, be sure to contact these breeders well in advance for their customers who decided to back out the last minute.


This time I do not have any breeder's stories to share with you all. I've sent numberous questionnaires and understandably so, many of them are very busy. If you want to submit a story of your farm, how you got started in Welsummers and your experience with a well known breeder who put you on the "right path" of raising Welsummers, please do share them!


I would like to make a couple of changes on the WCNA website and the club itself. Please advise ALL other members on other websites such as Yahoo Welsummer sites to sign up on the WCNA website under "Members". It is quick and easy and you would have better chances reaching interested customers and anyone that happened to web surf that day searching for some chickens for their backyard. And it is easier for me to send out an "email blast" rather than trying to get everyone on the email which Hotmail is notorious to act up on me and not everyone got the emails. I am getting alot of emails being returned and not everyone submitted their updated or new emails so it will stop now from here on and out. If you do not receive my emails, please sign up on the WCNA website. I will put our e-newsletters on the website as soon as the email blast has been sent.


Also I am going to eliminate the members out of the Breeder's List. I've got emails regarding that many of you are starting out and not gotten the flock up to breeding age yet or not yet certified by the state to ship. So all members join on the Members list and I will put the breeders with breeding stock in the Breeder's List that way anyone that wants to buy eggs or chicks, etc. can go there and contact these breeders. Some will NOT have emails or addresses so you will have to contact directly thru me or Nate for that information. If any of you have breeding stock, please indicate name/breeder/hatchery your Welsummers came out of since many of us have lines and strains we are working on our flock. And I will be adding colors, Eggs, Chicks, Started Birds, and Adult Birds category and if they do ship. Not all of us are NPIP breeders so we will indicate that as well.


If you do not see your name on the list, please do email me and I will add it on the Breeder's List. But first, do sign up.


Also I would like to thank all the members, very few of ten people, submitted their opinions and votes on the White Welsummers. Many of you thought it should never happen while three people thought they should be "included" as a wide assortment of colors for the Welsummer breed. We have voted and our votes DO count how we would accept those "project Welsummers". Even I do love the idea of a Blue Partridge colored Welsummer but it would not be the best interest of the breed itself. Sure you can do it on your own farm, your own project but be prepared to face people who are into maintaining the purity of the breed, respect them and they will respect you as well. We do have people that do the "Olive Egger" project, that is fine, but you will never sell them as Welsummers. We have been trying to maintain the purity of the breed in the last century so let's keep it that way. Even those of you stated that the Welsummers were not pure because of their origins, yes, that IS true however to keep it "pure" the breeders of yesterdays, have already done the work, the culling and maintaining the correct egg color for a long longer than we have. If I was to start a Blue Partridge project, I would have to cull so hard, breed a very long time, more than ten generations to get the consistency, egg colors, etc without getting throwbacks, I would have done well but I don't think I can do that task at such a short time on this Earth nor do I have followers that would "maintain" my lines, my method of culling. The breeders of old have done the work for us and it does not take much to destory like the hatchery have done so in such a very short time of a generation or two, losing plumagecolor or egg colors and in hatchery birds, I'm seeing barring or "buttercup" patterns and there is a question of what breed the hatchery has been using. Not often than not, most big breeders did sell their flock to a certain hatchery and if you were one of those fortunate ones that got the first generation, you are lucky. If you got them some time after, as in the following year, who knows what the hatchery has done to them and you would have to cull and work twice as hard on your Welsummers than the breeder did before he disperse his flock. If any of you have a long time standing flock of Welsummers, such like Laurie or anyone else, decided to sell or disperse the flock, do everyone a favor, sell them to a serious breeder, not a hatchery!!!!


Also, there were problems with the web server, Webs.com, on the WCNA.com. There were numberous businesses with that WCNA.com name so we will have to VOTE on the names that our members suggested. Please put your vote by emailing me so we can have a permanent Welsummer website here in the North America or USA. Remember, we can not use the WCNA.com so we need help finding another Welsummer web. There ARE going to be numberous "knock-offs" of Welsummer Clubs starting to sprout up and it is up to you to make your choices. We all can relate to the problems that the Marans Clubs have been having and we certainly do not want the Welsummer Club going in the same direction as they did. It was certainly a mess for everyone involved, mostly political reasons of their own. We can do better!


Here are the suggestions from our members:










So submit your votes to my email or Nate's email and we will tally up the votes, hopefully by April 1, 2011.


Also with the increased time and getting newsletters out in a timely manner, I realised I need a secretary to do the job and taking notes of our members and promoting the breed as well. I have one person, Kimberlee Manolis, Kelso, WA , of WA, who goes by the name of Pinkchick in BYC and she has been doing a good job keeping on top of the BYC's Welsummer thread and learning all the while. She is pretty informed on the breed.. It is not an easy job but I will help her anyway I can and all three of us can make the club run a bit more smoothly. I've asked her if she would be interested in being a secretary for the club, she is interested in the position.


So that being said, Kim's name will be put up for nomination and if any of you want to be a secretary or interested in this position, I would love to hear and I will add anyone's name for nomination. I am hoping everyone will actively take part in the voting process for the position. I will list names hopefully by April 1st and then everyone can get their votes in by May 1, 2011 so we can get the ball rolling.


Here are the two breeder's articles they have submitted which I think it would make excellent reading material and food for thought. If you have comments and opinions, you can post them on the WCNA website as soon as I post it on there individually. Any responses that would enflame or anything that would harm the club, it will be eliminated from the posts. Remember, not all of us can agree on issues on the issues we can NEVER agree on but be mindful that we are all humans and sometimes listening in other member's comments can educate others or thinking likewise in what the writer is trying to say.



Hope you all will have a great Spring and a very successful year!




Robin Geiger, President



NEWS FLASH!!!! Congratulations to Erhard for their BB, Reserved Breed on their Welsummers! Woooo hoooooooo!


Breeders Comments





Here's a wonderful article from the ALBC about what defines a line within a breed:

Defining Bloodlines and Strains Within Breeds

D. P. Sponenberg, J. Beranger, M. Bender

ALBC members frequently ask “what is a “bloodline?” or “what is a strain?” These terms are tricky to define, are often misunderstood, and many breeders struggle to understand exactly what these mean. Breaking down the basics can shed light on the concepts involved, and the definition of these often synonymous terms.

At the easiest level, a "bloodline" or "strain" is a group of animals within a breed that are themselves somewhat distinctive compared to other individuals of the same breed. This distinctiveness is usually both by physical type as well as by bloodline or pedigree. In this sense, a bloodline or strain is basically a "sub-branch" of the main "branch" that is the breed. The breed is a branch off of the main species trunk. The branching pattern goes species – breed group – breed – strain/bloodline. An example might be:

Cattle – Humpless cattle – Criollo breed group – Pineywoods breed – Conway strain

There are many examples in numerous breeds.

It is easiest to appreciate and define a bloodline/strain by looking retrospectively. A strain is different from the main breed by some amount of isolated breeding, and usually (by implication) a distinct foundation eventi. For example, a producer acquires goats from two herds from Texas. Both herds had been closed for the previous 30 years with no outside animals coming into either herd. The result is that they were both distinct from each other by appearance, foundation events, and from the genetic results of the selection imposed on the herds by the individual owners. These two herds would easily be considered to be separate strains within the breed. This is the "easy" definition, but really only applies when looking backward.

Looking prospectively to the future, the concept of "What does it take to make a strain?" gets tougher. Basically, the same components of reasonably unique foundation, genetic isolation, and owner selection come into play.

Here are a few examples to consider:

• If a successful rabbit breeder has a herd that has no outside introductions for 10 years or so, then clearly it is a strain. (So far, so good.) However, if two breeders get trios or quads out of this herd, and then breed them in isolation for five years each, are these then independent strains? Likely not because the animals are still closely related by pedigree. The exceptional case may be if selection for type were wildly different in each situation, then they could possibly be considered at least “sub-strains.” In most cases, though, it makes sense to consider genetically pure offshoots of strains as members of the original strain.

• A producer has a long-term breeding program for rabbits, but brings in a new buck every two years from widely varying source herds. In this situation the herd never gains the genetic uniformity to really become its own "strain." The snag here is the lack of isolation, which does not detract from the quality of the animals, but does make them more genetically variable than the concept used here for “strain.”

• In contrast, if a producer bought four rabbits from each of four different herds, mated them, and then closed the herdi for 5 or so years, then it is legitimate to call the group a strain. The unique combination of foundation, isolation, and selection is all in place in this example.

The problem of defining a “strain” is very similar to the problem of defining a "breed." Deciding exactly where to cut either one off is often perplexing. "We know it when we see it" rarely cuts the mustard, but is unfortunately close to the truth! But, saying that strains have at least four generations of closed breeding with no outside introductions is a start and will stand up to scrutiny in most cases.

It must be added, though, that outside breeding IS occasionally allowed, and even necessary, or strains become genetic dead-ends. The key issue is what happens after the outcross. The results of the outcross should be mated back into the strain, in what is essentially an "upgrading" process. This needs to result in at least 75% (or, better, 87.5%) the influence of the original strain in order to be considered part of that original strain. This requires two or three crosses back to the strain.

There is no exact science in determining if and when a population has become a strain or bloodline. This designation cannot be judged simply by the years of isolation the population has endured, because the isolation and foundation are also important. It is through the combination of uniformity in genetics, appearance, production traits, as well as isolation that a strain can be identified as a clear sub-population within a breed.

An important issue in any discussion of strains and bloodlines is “why are bloodlines and strains important?” The bloodlines within a breed can be very important reservoirs of genetic variation, and managing these within the overall breed is important for long-term breed survivali. When some strains gain significant popularity and overwhelm the presence of other strains in the breed by marginalizing them or driving them to extinction, the result is decreased genetic health for the breed as a whole. Understanding the role of strains in maintaining genetic health for a breed is essential for all serious breeders.






Editor's Comments: This is from one of the WCNA members, Laurie Adams (Mother Mastiff) on her thoughts on the White Welsummers and her reasons why we need to stay focus on the Welsummer breed and colors like the country of origin. For those who are not up to date on the White Welsummers, please go into Yahoo forum and look up the White Welsummer threads. Good food for thoughts! Thank you Laurie!




Mostly the only folks who like white birds when the breed is known for a colored version are judges who like solid white or black so they can look at the structure and other traits (eye and leg and beak color, etc.) without distractions. Makes their lives easier when they have to look hard at hundreds of birds in a day.


I would rather not select what I breed based on what will appeal to a lazy or overworked judge.


I also strongly dislike white birds because of the eat-me factor (the last of Mr Barber's Exchequer Leghorns were eaten by hawks, because despite their cute spots, they were too close to solid white, broke my heart).


White birds look like God forgot his crayons that morning. Also because unless they were developed in the arctic and had to blend in with a lot of snow, I wonder WHY? Why the absence of all color, pattern, design?


The MOST important thing is, if solid white is NOT a color accepted or approved in the country where the breed originated and it is NOT, then there should not BE white Welsummers. Anywhere. Not if they are called WELSUMMERS. PERIOD.


I can see the value in a solid color that is necessary to create a LEGITIMATE and APPROVED color in a breed, IF it is purebred. Then it is an intermediate step towards something that BELONGS in the breed.


The blue Marans that hatched out in my own line is not an approved color as a solid blue, BUT you have to have both solid blue and copper black to make copper blue, which IS a legitimate pattern in France, the country of origin, and copper blue what the descendants of my solid blue birds helped to establish in the US. Till then, we didn't have Copper Blue.


But a lot of people think ANYTHING new and different is "rare" (sometimes there's a REASON they are rare, because the color is linked with an undesirable trait, sometimes because it is simply proof of impurity which torques off the knowledgeable breeders who have put the most time, effort, and money into improving their pure birds).


Rare is NOT always good, and the "value" is generally only in the novelty effect, because people can get more for "rare" chicks of generally low quality than for high quality normal ones (that are more expensive to produce than mediocre birds), meaning some people sell genetically mixed up birds at high prices for a year or two, and then seem to disappear....


Often the "rare" color doesn't breed true, especially if the breeder has not worked with it for multiple generations to make SURE they will produce a consistent appearance that matches the breed standard. I remember a friend who bought some rare color from a very big shot in poultry, and the chicks that arrived looked fine, but when they were grown up and bred, their chicks were all colors, NOT the rare new color the parents looked like.


White Welsummers with a lot of Leghorn traits? That's a no-brainer, the color came from an accidental cross with a white Leghorn, and the breeder is in denial or just never saw it happen, or it happened with the previous owner and this guy just happened to put together two later descendants of the fast Leghorn rooster and got the Leghorn traits appearing like a miracle.


These birds are ugly, they are not a legitimate breed color, they have multiple faults that would make them VERY undesirable to breed with real Welsummers, and encouraging people to accept THIS specific color will lead to ignorant people accepting white on the properly colored birds, which would be a HUGE disaster to the pure and correct birds and the limited gene pool in the US.


White tipping DOES occur in pure and legitimate Welsummers, BUT as anyone with long experience with the breed can tell you, it is a BITCH to breed out, and it is an additive gene, so it gets worse until you eliminate it.


The problem with white feather tips on Welsummers is that they tend to not show up at first till the birds are mature, and it is almost impossible to identify a carrier, you have to do controlled breedings to see who is carrying what, which is extremely expensive and time consuming.


What if the carriers of white are also your birds of best type and egg color? See the problem this creates? It is a HUGE mistake for anyone to associate white in ANY way with this breed.


Just don't go there in the first place with white Welsummers, and if anyone knows the breeder who is selling them, please explain this to him (you are welcome to forward this post to him), and we will find out real fast what kind of person he is.


If he is into it for the money and doesn't really care about the breed, he will keep selling them and cause problems for the pure and correct birds over time, when people who don't know any better have both and cross them. But he won't care because he will have made a lot of money off innocent people and be off after the next unusual looking mutt to market.


But what I HOPE is the case is that he is honest and a straight-up guy, and once he understands that it might have been someone else before him, but he is doubling up on a cross to another breed, and producing mutts with no merit and serious faults, he will stop selling them.


That's what I hope, anyway.


Laurie Adams (Mother Mastiff)

Silk Hope Fiber Farm

Critically Endangered Gulf Coast Native Sheep




Many thanks to Laurie for their insights of the Welsummer. Your experiences and observation are valued among us!

White Welsummers

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on January 25, 2011 at 9:52 AM Comments comments (4)

 Roger Vaughn has been working on these White Welsummers since 2005-06.


Roger had bought some Ideal Hatchery Welsummers of partridge color from a local feed store in 1998-99 and no odd colors popped up until 2006-07, the hens started to throw white chicks every now and then. So he kept the white ones, bred them together and still produced white chicks. He considered them as "sports" Welsummers and has been raising them since then. Jerry Malone bought some of Mr. Vaughn's chicks and they both have kept them pure with NO outbreedings or cross breedings on their White Welsummers.


I would like to thank Jerry Malone in sharing his White Welsummers and there are the photos below. Remember, White Welsummers are NOT accepted in the Dutch standards, nor they are accepted in the USA. The UK Welsummer Club are on the "fence" about accepting Gold Duckwings and White colors. Many times breeders would heavily culled these White Welsummer chicks, thinking they are inferior even with purebred Welsummers for many generations. It is not unusual to FIND white chicks on any colored breed but in MOST cases, it is not acceptable until the demand and promotion has been done for the breed (or for any breed to gain acceptance to the APA Standard of Perfection). What Mr. Malone and Mr. Vaughn are doing, those White Welsummers are presently "project birds".  They both recognized that the color would NOT be accepted by most Welsummer purists or breeders but they feel that their White Welsummers would be just as good as our Partridge Welsummers when they have successfully reach their goals in getting the standard corrected and working on the pigment of the eggs.


I wish them good luck in their endeavors and thank you for sharing with us!



WCNA Fall 2010 e-Newsletter

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on October 25, 2010 at 10:53 AM Comments comments (0)





To our members



Summer is over and Fall is here! It has been a very trying year for some of us, experiencing flock losses from extreme heat and predators. Let's hope next year would be even better for us! Cocci and CRD are commonplace at home and shows. I can not stress this enough, please do isolate your birds from your existing flock when you come back from a show. I know one breeder failed to do that, and she lost ALL of her Welsummers. It was upsetting but it was preventable. Even the ones with NPIP is not immune from these diseases and Mother Nature doesn't care either.



Voting a Member


I am voting a member of the WCNA to be selected as Vice President of this Club, Nate Vanwey. I would need YOUR votes either to yea or no for Nate. He would be an asset to our growing club and trying to get some by-laws and const. going here but I am running into a brick wall trying to find other breed clubs for that kind of information. If anyone is willing to submit a copy of their club laws, please do email me and I will take a look at it. It wont be long when we will have a Secretary in coming year which I do have one in mind if she is willing to do something. Also something in the works, a district officer for East, MidCentral, Rockies and West Coast....I do not know what their job entails but I will find out if we do have members in here that wants to do something like that. I do not want to get too big too fast when we are all flying by the seat of our pants running the Club until someone who has ALOT of experience, knowledge of the ins and out of the club that would take the time to guide us to the right path. So please submit your votes for Nate to be the vice president by emailing me. As soon as I get the votes in, I will submit it in the next newsletter or a special email to all of you the results of our votes.



The who's who in the bloodlines of our Welsummers are as follows:



Large Fowl

Lowell Barber



Calicowoods/Harry Shaw Jr.

Bjord Netland


Bantam Fowl





Each of these breeders above may or may not have the same traits in the common goal of the Welsummers. Some want more refinements, different body structures, egg production, egg shell colors (speckled or no speckles) but they do know when to cull when it does not meet the standard of perfection for the Welsummer breed. Can you tell the difference between those breeder's lines? Some can and some can not. I can not tell the difference yet. I do know some breeders do want to stick with the country origin, to keep the type and lines pure such as the German, Dutch (Holland/Netherlands) and English. I do not have a problem with those who wants to achieve that type and hopefully they do well here in the United States. If you want to keep the lines or need of a line to add to your flock, ask questions and lots of them! A good breeder would not hide anything and if they do, keep on looking! If you like what you see in those breeder's flocks, ask them how they start off with and see if you can buy the chicks so you do not have to do as much work or the work has been done for you (culling imperfections, traits, etc.). Some would like to keep pure, like for one breeder I know of, Laurie (Mother Mastiff) would keep her flock pure, strictly Lowell Barber lines and has some of the original flock from him.



As for the bantam fowl lines, Verheyden has been around a long time. The line originated from Germany, and a Canadian breeder brought it over in Canada and raised them successfully for many years. As far as I know Erhard Wiehls has those bantam flocks and a few of us have Erhard's stock as well. Amestein is a fairly new imported line, coming in from Netherlands by Mr Andre Vant Westeinde of TX. There is another line coming up this year but I didn't catch the name of the newest imported line. As soon as I know, I will add it to the Bantam fowl breeder listed above. What I can tell the difference, personally, between the Verheyden and Amestein lines are the colors. The pullets' breast colors and feather shaft colors are much darker in the German while the Amestein is more of the larger cousins colors. body types are somewhat similar however the Verheyden has more of the OE look while the Amestein are more refined and smaller in type. In both cases, they are both lovely! A breeder in Idaho is breeding those two lines together and I have not yet personally seen the crosses to see what they have in both worlds.



The question has been asked among many of the members (here and abroad) about the color of the feather shafts. Are they supposed to be white, grey, yellow or black bay in color? I know there were different variations of colors but no one was really able to clarify that for me which would be the correct standard for the American judges, for the Canadian judges and the UK judges. I know in the Netherlands, the color should be darker than ours. Maybe some pictures of the feathers in general would help!



I will have to see if it is worthwhile in finding color charts for feather patterns...I've been seeing some barred going on which it is a real NO NO in the breed and therefore a cross somewhere down the line. If you have that in your flock, either you have a hatchery type Welsummer or a bad "throwback" in the Welsummer and should not be used for breeding for exhibition purposes or someone who is very serious about their Wellies.



Also a few members were complaining about the "white Welsummers" or chicks that were "piebald sussex colors". That, again, is a NO NO and should never ever used for breeding because white feathers are dominant in most cases and harder to get rid of in the future generations. As far as I know there is one breeder still selling hatching eggs of this so called "white Welsummers" should NOT be selling as pure Welsummers and I would suggest that it is a buyer's beware if you want to purchase those colored Welsummers. I have not yet seen any crazy colored Welsummers yet but the colors that we have NOW are the red partridge, silver duckwing and gold duckwing. Golden necks are very close to the gold duckwings color pattern but someone wants to breed those colors can do so. I have not yet seen any Black, White or mottled/spangled Welsummers yet.


Also feathered or stubbled leg feathers have been coming out, mostly in hatchery bred birds. Those should be culled out as well.



Breeder's Corner


It has been sent to two of our members but it has not been yet submitted back at the time of this publication of this e-Newsletter. So when it does come in for to be submitted, it will be emailed to all of you again as soon as I get them. Alot of us have plenty of things to be caught up for the Fall, preparing for winter. I hope this winter will be a light one because it has been dry for us, our ground is cracking badly. Be sure to give your chickens a pile of goodies under neath all those leaves...fun for them and fun for us to watch them dig themselves into the piles like kids!




Hope everyone have a safe Halloween!!!!!!!



Robin Geiger

Spring 2010 WCNA e-Newsletter

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on September 30, 2010 at 6:26 PM Comments comments (0)

Spring has arrived!



Hopefully many of you have baby chicks in brooders or selling hatching eggs despite of the heavy rains, tornadoes and hails experiencing in the Southern states. I hope you are doing well and your chickens are doing well too! It is a trying times for many of us, not having jobs, or cutting back on essential things we do not need and more gardening. Feel free to swap seeds with the members here, I am sure many of us would appreciate that!



Here we go! Enjoy and read what I have found! I hope many of you can share the stories of original breeders and how they came here in the US. I am hoping to have more later when I do get some responses! I am hoping to have more US Welsummer Breeders in future newsletters and I am happy to introduce you to Nate which I had to admire his determination and expectation of the Welsummers he is now raising. He is listed under the Breeder's Section and you can read all about him and his love for his Welsummers.




Mr Voorhorst's Welsummers....see page 135 for the pic of him and his companion with the Welsumers.






Breeder's Section:




Shamrock Farm - http://shamrockfarm.webs.com

Nate Vanwey, age 23

Hudson, WI 54016




Have you had chickens before you got started with the Welsummers? What got you started in chickens in general? Who influenced you to have chickens(like relatives, friends)?

*I got my first "real" start in chickens on a trip to see my Great Grandma up in Duluth, MN. When me and my parents stopped by Wal-Mart up there, there was a guy in the van next to us who had a Rooster on his lap. And baby chicks in the back seat... So I stayed out there with him when my parents went inside of Wal-Mart to get whatever they needed... Needless to say when they got back out, I had a baby chick in both of my pockets of my jacket, got into my moms convertable, and we left, and eventually they heard the chicks chiping, and I had gotten the guys name and number, and we talk and hang out to this day! After getting home, I had to have some more, so I we drove to the feed store and I got more baby chicks, some chuckar partridge, bobwhite quail, eastern wild turkeys, and mallard ducks. Now to this day, I have over 100 birds, and my parents still put up with them on the farm!



How did you decide on your breed? What made it stand out from other breeds you have had? Who was the biggest Welsummer breeder/owner influenced you to get into Welsummers?

*I started with the welsummers when I found out about their beautiful eggs, and got my first chicks from Estes Hatchery. A neighbor then wanted to buy them all, so I sold them... a few years later(in 2009) I NEEDED more welsummers, so I ordered from Xtreme Gamebirds(drop ship from Privett Hatchery). Then I sold all of those when i found out that the "Show Lines" were much darker egg layers, bigger bird, and true to the standard, and that is what I am breeding today. Bloodlines from Channing Grisham and John Hall.



How long have you been breeding Welsummers?

*Off and on for a few years, breeding the "TRUE" welsummer, this is my first year breeding them and producing chicks of quality!



How do you plan to help the Welsummers to continue your legacy?

*Out of 25 chicks, I selected down to 7 hens and 2 roosters, that I am using for breeding now. Always working on egg color, and selecting only the best roosters for breeding! I must say I do like the DARK SPECKLED eggs, so I have a few hens that lay the really dark speckled eggs!


What do you enjoy the most about Welsummers?

*Personality and Egg color. As chicks, they tend to be a little bit on the flighty side, but when they are all grown up, they are the

friendliest chickens ever! They follow me around with the feed pail, and love their daily treat of bean seeds, along with their table scraps of bread and veggies!


What were the greatest challenge you have faced in owning/breeding/raising Welsummers?

*Being young and a novice with chickens, I ordered from a hatchery first, and had to have the real deal. Which I now have!


If you were to meet ANY past or present Welsummer breeders here or abroad, who would you like to meet and learn from? And why? What common goals do you have with this certain breeder or breeders?

PAST: Lowell Barber, he seems to be an amazing guy, and has done ALOT of work to get LOTS of breeds of chickens in the USA and established.


PRESENT: Andre Van't Westeinde, he is doing some amazing work on getting QUALITY welsummer bantams into the USA! It has been a pleasure working with him, and I am very thankful to get alot of his stock. He is also planning on importing 10 more welsummer bantam eggs this year from 2 top breeders in Holland! Andre also took over 12 eggs from my Largefowl Welsummers(what a joy that he picked me, to get eggs from!) to take over to Holland for Evaluation.

This is what I got a response from Andre about my eggs/birds:



(email dated: 5/1/10)

Hello Nate,

My Dutch Welsummer buddy e-mailed, he had 3 chicks out of your eggs!

He is excited, considering the enormous trip from Wisconsin to Holland

I think the result is good.

He is going to see how they grow out and then decide how he will breed

with them next year.

The focus for him will be on darker eggs.

Keep you Posted,



Currently I have the Largest flock of Amestein Welsummer Bantams in the USA.

I have 2 breeding pens of them right now, and about 75 chicks in the brooders now! I am also working on improving the Welsummer Bantam Egg color, but still stay true to the standard!



Any advices, suggestions or tips for anyone who are wanting to get into Welsummers? (it can be recordkeeping, maintaining the bloodlines, showmanship or showing, breeding, health, etc.)

Do you have anything special you are working on? (egg colors, plumages, bloodlines, etc.)

*Improving egg color of the bantams, and maintaing a PURE line of DUTCH Welsummer bantams, Amestein Bloodline. I do not have any of the German Welsummer bantams that were imported in from Canada, some 20 years ago!



Are there any other breeds you wanted to try but haven't?

*I change all the time, but the welsummers are here to stay, this year I am/have added Light Sussex(PURE Greenfire Farms and I also got some birds from Ron Dinger's Line). I am also in the process of adding Buckeyes!


And final question, which came first, the chicken or the egg??????? (LOL!)

*Well that is a tough question! Think of it this way... Eggs/Chickenis the only thing that you can eat before it is born, and after it is dead...





Nate Vanwey






From Editor: Thank you Nate for your wonderful input on the Bantam and Large Fowl Welsummers!


Folks, if you want Nate's Welsummers, please contact him and let him know you are interested. He is an easy guy to work with but very, very serious in his birds!


Update from Editor: Sadly to say that the one of the three chicks died, it was a cockeral while the other two are pullets. I hope the breeder have enough to work from those two pullets and wished him good luck! (9/2010)





Now for the next newsletter, give me your next vote who you want to be the next Breeder's Section. You can email me names and I can contact you if you want me to email this particular person. I am still trying to find articles on Harry Snowden, UK, a prominent show man, Mr W. Ashe King and Mrs. A.M. Pape, who were all prominent UK Welsummer breeders in the 1900's. I do not have much luck in finding much history of Lowell Barber, Bjorn Netland, Chris Channing and John Hall, all are/were good USA Welsummer breeders.



Thank you members for joining WCNA's Facebook, we have up to 68 members so far!!!!!!! Let's keep them coming! If you want to submit an article, please do let me know and I will have it for the next newsletter!


Good job, WCNA members!!!!!!!!!!!

Fall/Winter 2009 WCNA e-Newsletter

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on September 30, 2010 at 6:20 PM Comments comments (0)

Hello WCNA members!


After getting a few positive responses from several of you, that you have enjoyed the Newsletter! Thank you and hopefully I shall keep it going until someone wants to do the Newsletter.


Since WCNA is still in its infancy, there is no president, vice president or any board members being selected or anyone raising their hands wanting to do the job. I have NO experience in running the club so I am learning as I go and I must thank each and every one of you for your patience and getting me back on track, thanks to our fellow Welsummer friends who kept me grounded, corrected errors, misquotes about the Welsummers. Thank you!



If any of you members would like to figure out how to run the club, getting the president and elect any members that would like to do the job, please raise your hands by letting me or others know on Yahoo and Facebook.



Yes we do have a Welsummer Facebook to see the whos who in our community. Please do respect other member's privacy if they choose not to work or deal with any members that they do not feel comfortable with. However most of us are very willing to help out getting started in Welsummers and how to get started in it would give you the best route to take, rather than getting inferior birds that would take you a very long time to reach the goal of getting rich terra cotta eggs and correct stance on the Welsummers. So if you have not signed up there, feel free to do so. You do not need to add all those details if you do not want anyone to know. After all, we are proud of our Welsummers! I have one brief history on the Welsummers of Welsum, Holland....a long time breeder. Many thanks to Andre on his input! I sure hope to have more from you all at a later date.



Fall is here! I hope most of you living in the East, North, the Rockies and Upper West coast of US get all things ready for the winter. Coops do not have to be insulated as long your birds have place to get out of the wind, drafts and COLD Canadian air. If you are to install heat lamps, please, please do be careful, they are dangerous if they do end up getting knocked over, causing numberous fires. Be sure to anchor with chains (nailed in and snap lock on one end to move light up or down) on a sturdy pillar, post or rafters. Do not use clip on attactments, those things would slip off and cause fires too! Be sure they have plenty of ventilation as well! A sweaty coop is not a good thing at all!



The holidays are coming up and we all will be very busy with our friends and families. I hope everyone is doing ok despite of all the job losses, cutbacks or lost something or someone you love dearly. Prayers are being sent and God Bless You and Your Family!






Aug 2009 WCNA e-Newsletter

Posted by Robin Paceley-Geiger on September 30, 2010 at 6:20 PM Comments comments (0)

Greetings to all of our WCNA members!


This will be our first e-newsletter that we will have for our new club and hopefully I will be able to tackle this job in quarterly time. I am expected to have my rotator cuff surgery this Friday and will be out of commission for a few weeks. I will have Ione (Amazondoc) keep tabs on anything important or something needs my attention ASAP. If anyone would like to write or edit WCNA e-newsletter, do let me know so I can transfer all the email addresses of our WCNA members.


There are no new updates on the website yet and ideas and suggestions would be most appreciative. When Ione has the time, she will put down for the membership list and hopefully in due time, we will add the history of US/North American breeders that are/was important for our lines that we have today. We are hoping that the APA Standard of Perfection would be out published so we can get the information on the Welsummer color guidelines that we have available in the US. We have the Red Partridge (or Rust Partridge as some members mentioned), Gold Duckwing and Silver Duckwing colors in large fowl and bantam fowl.


We will continue to use the Yahoo forum for our questions and comments for the public and members to see and learn. I am hoping in due time, the numbers will increase and the quality of the Welsummers will improve as well. Any new members, please ask alot of questions before buying your first Welsummer because it would save the time, money and disappointment that I saw many times over from people who bought hatchery Welsummer chicks.


We will not have any membership fees at this time. The Yahoo site, e-newsletters and other information pertaining to Welsummers are free via thru internet emails. We will probably will not have any hard or snail mails for our newsletters so it would save paper and stamps by doing this. A little of my time is all it takes and we can make it work. Any new members that is not on my email list, interested members would have to submit the information of addresses and emails so I can post them out. Please DO let me know certain information such as not wanting folks to know of your street address and want it to be omitted or phone numbers not listed, please indicate that! I do respect privacy and continue to do so. Do NOT ask me for the certain address of certain breeders if they do not want their home address or phone numbers listed. A common couresty would benefit all of us! I will continue to take on membership applications and information. Rob from Idaho is working on his breeder's list.


As far as I know there is no chat for the WCNA to date. There isn't enough of us to be online to chat. Any recommendation of a chat room in other forums such as PalTalk could be done but most of us have different internet providers and not all of us can access to a certain chat such as AOL.com.


I will include the membership list as of to this date and will send out new members via thru email. Once a year, I can gather all the members and put it on one list or anyone that ask for it.


The For Sale/Want ads on e-newsletter is pending. For right now, post them on Yahoo website OR for more views, go to Backyardchickens.com under the Sales forum and post your ads there. The demand of Welsummers are strong and good input for your egg/chick business.


To this date, we do not have a president, vice president or any elective members for this club. I do not know how to go about it but I will be happy to "sit-in" as an acting president but not a full elective president. This is a new club and in due time, we will get the run down on the politics of running the WCNA. For those who have experienced in other clubs as higher elective officials, and you would like the position, do let us know that you are interested in being one and get all the information on running the club.


I am hoping in near future we will have our own Welsummer egg chart, similar to the Maran egg chart and all the shades of eggs we have out there. it is very difficult to get the accurate shade of our eggs with a home camera. I am sure someone can give us some tips on photographing eggs.


Lastly, I would love to get information on the history of our US/North American breeders such as Lowell Barber, Bjorn Netland and all the good people that made Welsummers a hot topic to have in our flock. If anyone got pictures, stories to tell and their experience and how these people imported them and where they got their Welsummer from, please do share. So if you have something to tell us and want to include them in the newsletter and website, do let me know and I would be sure to add them on the page of historical facts.


Be sure to take care of your Welsummers during this crazy summer. It has been a cool summer for us but lately it has been warmer and humid. Put out ice water out, they would appreciate that! Plenty of shade too! Also for all of you, take care of yourselves and pace yourself when you are outside. Heat exhaustion can strike you without a warning and drink plenty of water or Gatorade!!!!


Blessings to you all!


Robin Paceley-Geiger